Last night, ZeroHedge hosted Scott Horton and former Trump NSC chief of staff Fred Fleitz for a wide-ranging discussion on the question: How successful has President Trump’s foreign policy agenda been so far in his second term? Much of the exchange revealed shared criticism of post-Cold War U.S. foreign policy’s belligerence towards Russia.
Horton and Fleitz diverged as the theatres of conflict expanded, most notably in the Middle East and principally on the American government’s relationship to Israel.
Here were the highlights for those who missed it, and check out David Rand’s Human Reaction Podcast who hosted last night’s debate:
“Zionism ultimately is the Achilles heel in America First… we cannot have an America first policy when it’s Israel instead.”
Horton argued that U.S. alignment with Israeli regional priorities undermines the very premise of America First by entangling Washington in conflicts that do not directly serve U.S. security interests.
“I think that Zionism ultimately is the Achilles heel in America first, because we really cannot be, and the last year I think shows, we cannot have an America first policy when it’s Israel instead.”
American Mid-East policy is schizophrenic, according to Horton. The U.S. policy supports Islamist factions in the name of countering “radical” proxies of Iran and Hezbollah, a tradeoff he views as strategically reckless:
“So often because of our Israel First policy, we end up supporting the Bin Ladenites… And so… we end up putting their priorities… ahead of our priority… which should really at this point only be one simple thing, keeping the Bin Ladenites down.”
Fleitz defended Israel as a central component of Trump’s America First approach, arguing that support for Israel is both strategically and morally justified and helps prevent broader U.S. military involvement:
“America first means standing strongly with Israel and fighting anti-Semitism… The enemies that fight over there means we don’t have to fight them.”
— ZeroHedge Debates (@zerohedgeDebate) January 23, 2026
Now for Venezuela…
“If any foreign nation tried to kidnap our president, we’d nuke their capital city.”
The capture of Maduro, at the time, was highly divisive for warring GOP factions. While things have been quiet on that front, it was obvious to anyone that Mario Machado’s gifting of the Nobel Prize to Trump was purely political in hopes that he will install her as Venezuela’s leader… meaning the forces behind Machado may not be finished with the regime change yet.
In regards to the operation in early January, Absolute Resolve, Horton warned that such operations can create dangerous incentives by reinforcing the belief that military action is low-cost and easily controlled:
“We saw the same thing happen in 1989 in Panama… quick and easy… And they got it done… Wars will be easy… War is fun. War is the solution.”
Fleitz responded that presidents have long exercised such authority to defend national security and that objections are often applied inconsistently:
“The president has the right under the constitution to use military force to defend the American people… I don’t remember most of the Democrats objecting when Obama was using drones…”
Fleitz went on to say that it technically was not an act of war, which Horton dismissed:
“‘If any foreign nation tried to kidnap our president, we’d nuke their capital city.”
— ZeroHedge Debates (@zerohedgeDebate) January 23, 2026
“You cannot have it both ways. Limited republic or world empire.”
If you don’t have time to watch the full debate, do yourself a favor and listen to Scott Horton’s barn burner closing rant: “We have to abandon the empire so that we can reinstate the republic.”
— ZeroHedge Debates (@zerohedgeDebate) January 23, 2026
Watch the full debate here or listen on Spotify.
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